🙋🏽♂️ I would like to learn more about the Immaculate Conception and Marian Theology.
Well laid out Scoot and a good explanation to a non-Catholic. I've said it before but I do believe we Protestants are missing out when it comes to understanding Mary and the Saints. I'm reading more about this on my own, certainly, but would love to see you write more about Mary going forward.
OK I was thinking about this and gotta share it--it'll be a good brain tickler if you haven't heard this before. Here's some quick thoughts to put Mary in context:
Genesis: A man, a woman, a tree, eating the fruit of the tree, the fall of man.
Gospel: A man, a woman, a tree, eating the fruit of the tree, the redemption of man.
Genesis: The man came first, the woman took her flesh from him. The woman leads the man to the tree. The woman is tempted. The man eats the fruit, and occasions their fall.
Gospel: The woman came first, the man took his flesh from her. The woman follows the man to the tree. The man is tempted. The man is mounted on the tree. The man occasions their redemption.
I've heard and thought of Christ being the new Adam but have never heard or made the connection of Mary being the new Eve. But I follow what you're laying out and can comprehend it. As best as one can, I suppose.
And it's crazy because I've understood the crucifixion of an inversion of the fall, but not to the extent of including Mary. Again, the emphasis on Mary has just not been there in my tradition. If anything, people get fixated on Mary Magdalene and try to blend some Dan Brown stuff into their theology..
"And the Lord God said to the serpent: Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.
***I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel***."
"thy seed and her seed"--God is talking about Mary here, in the "daughter of eve, son of adam" sense. This is why many depictions of Mary include a snake underfoot. We see this imagery reflected again in Revelation--the woman clothed in the sun. Mary is an essential part of the whole Narrative of Salvation, and was in mind from the beginning.
leaving it at that, because if i keep going i'll write a whole post in the comments and have nothing left for a future post 😂
Did my wife already suggest Brant Pitre's Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary??? Best one-stop shop for Biblical dissection of Mary.
The Church fathers are SHOCKINGLY defensive of Mary and are an amazing place to meditate on the roots of Marian devotion.
"I was requested by certain of the brethren not long ago to reply to a pamphlet written by one Helvidius. I have deferred doing so, not because it is a difficult matter to maintain the truth and refute an ignorant boor who has scarce known the first glimmer of learning, but because I was afraid my reply might make him appear worth defeating." - St. Jerome talking about the perpetual virginity of Mary
Comment any time and as much as you like! Hambone likes to talk about Eric Ybarra and he recently made a post talking about how the historicity of Marys assumption is really poor--but so is the same for her death and burial. Therefore we can rely on tradition without any issue ESPECIALLY because the early church was so vigorous about it. I had not heard that quote but i love the vigor AND the St Jeromeness of it 😂
Yes! Sara recommended a few Brant Pitre works in recent memory, and Hambone was my introduction to Christ the Bridegroom. I havent actually read any of his work but it brought typology into my awareness and he blows my mind whenever i hear something new from him!
I love the sign language explanation of ascension vs assumption!
I claim no theological credentials, but I believe one of the issues (I realize there were many others, political etc) of the disagreements between RC & Eastern Orthodox was a line in the Nicene Creed. At the Council of Nicaea, St. Nicholas punched some guy in the face over it. RC's say the "Filioque" "the Holy Spirit...who proceeds from the Father and the Son." Orthodox believe the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father.
Yes, Nicene Creed is not without it's controversy. Filioque is fodder for people far smarter than myself! I do love the Santa-punching-a-guy story, though haha!
Yeah, I can't really fathom the Trinity much less the Filioque. But ever since hearing the violent Santa story, my youngest gives me a knowing look at Mass when we say that line in the Nicene Creed. Seems a silly reason for a Schism.
"Most" was a weasel word to account for differing interpretations of the words in the creed.
Great Post, thanks.
Thank you for reading!
🙋🏽♂️ I would like to learn more about the Immaculate Conception and Marian Theology.
Well laid out Scoot and a good explanation to a non-Catholic. I've said it before but I do believe we Protestants are missing out when it comes to understanding Mary and the Saints. I'm reading more about this on my own, certainly, but would love to see you write more about Mary going forward.
I have a strong personal devotion to Mary so it would be my absolute pleasure to do so! Thanks Derek!
Hype for this post!
OK I was thinking about this and gotta share it--it'll be a good brain tickler if you haven't heard this before. Here's some quick thoughts to put Mary in context:
Genesis: A man, a woman, a tree, eating the fruit of the tree, the fall of man.
Gospel: A man, a woman, a tree, eating the fruit of the tree, the redemption of man.
Genesis: The man came first, the woman took her flesh from him. The woman leads the man to the tree. The woman is tempted. The man eats the fruit, and occasions their fall.
Gospel: The woman came first, the man took his flesh from her. The woman follows the man to the tree. The man is tempted. The man is mounted on the tree. The man occasions their redemption.
Christ is the new Adam, but Mary is the new Eve.
WELL HOT DOG!
I've heard and thought of Christ being the new Adam but have never heard or made the connection of Mary being the new Eve. But I follow what you're laying out and can comprehend it. As best as one can, I suppose.
And it's crazy because I've understood the crucifixion of an inversion of the fall, but not to the extent of including Mary. Again, the emphasis on Mary has just not been there in my tradition. If anything, people get fixated on Mary Magdalene and try to blend some Dan Brown stuff into their theology..
Thank you for giving me something to ponder!
One more nugget, from Genesis 3:14-15
"And the Lord God said to the serpent: Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.
***I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel***."
"thy seed and her seed"--God is talking about Mary here, in the "daughter of eve, son of adam" sense. This is why many depictions of Mary include a snake underfoot. We see this imagery reflected again in Revelation--the woman clothed in the sun. Mary is an essential part of the whole Narrative of Salvation, and was in mind from the beginning.
leaving it at that, because if i keep going i'll write a whole post in the comments and have nothing left for a future post 😂
Wow!! 🤯🤯 Well, my mind is sufficiently blown now so yes, leave the rest for a future post! hahah
Protoevangelium! Protoevangelium!!!
Did my wife already suggest Brant Pitre's Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary??? Best one-stop shop for Biblical dissection of Mary.
The Church fathers are SHOCKINGLY defensive of Mary and are an amazing place to meditate on the roots of Marian devotion.
"I was requested by certain of the brethren not long ago to reply to a pamphlet written by one Helvidius. I have deferred doing so, not because it is a difficult matter to maintain the truth and refute an ignorant boor who has scarce known the first glimmer of learning, but because I was afraid my reply might make him appear worth defeating." - St. Jerome talking about the perpetual virginity of Mary
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm
I don't know comments etiquette. Forgive the length and the fact that it's been nearly a week.
Comment any time and as much as you like! Hambone likes to talk about Eric Ybarra and he recently made a post talking about how the historicity of Marys assumption is really poor--but so is the same for her death and burial. Therefore we can rely on tradition without any issue ESPECIALLY because the early church was so vigorous about it. I had not heard that quote but i love the vigor AND the St Jeromeness of it 😂
Yes! Sara recommended a few Brant Pitre works in recent memory, and Hambone was my introduction to Christ the Bridegroom. I havent actually read any of his work but it brought typology into my awareness and he blows my mind whenever i hear something new from him!
Nice. Thanks.
I love the sign language explanation of ascension vs assumption!
I claim no theological credentials, but I believe one of the issues (I realize there were many others, political etc) of the disagreements between RC & Eastern Orthodox was a line in the Nicene Creed. At the Council of Nicaea, St. Nicholas punched some guy in the face over it. RC's say the "Filioque" "the Holy Spirit...who proceeds from the Father and the Son." Orthodox believe the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father.
Yes, Nicene Creed is not without it's controversy. Filioque is fodder for people far smarter than myself! I do love the Santa-punching-a-guy story, though haha!
Thank you so much for reading Erin!
Yeah, I can't really fathom the Trinity much less the Filioque. But ever since hearing the violent Santa story, my youngest gives me a knowing look at Mass when we say that line in the Nicene Creed. Seems a silly reason for a Schism.
The true nature of God is the deepest inside baseball we have!