The great Sicilian philosopher, St. Thomas Aquinas, wrote in Summa Contra Gentiles that “The slenderest knowledge that may be obtained of the highest things is more desirable than the most certain knowledge obtained of lesser things”. As a cradle catholic I find reading the "Green" metanoia of converts like yourself be very reaffirming of my own faith and that all minds, whether simple or complex, are Capax Gratiae.
Thanks for reading, and very well said! All minds are capable of grace--once we acknowledge that suddenly it becomes difficult to be critical of our fellow man for suffering from the same human frailty as ourselves.
Well said (and not a terribly surprising topic for the PTD; I was waiting for this!). Like that quote from Fulton Sheen, unless we’re actively putting our knowledge into practice in our own lives, we’re not doing something right. As a theology student, this is something I need to remember more.
This is a topic that has popped up again and again, and ive really struggled with how to talk about it so ive appreciated the discussions we’ve had. The concept of mentorship and direction has helped unlock whatever was left—if we have direction its no longer our discretion, but our obedience that makes the difference. Direction short cuts so many problems!
> If you read this and, with exasperation, think “How can I get a spiritual director/mentor/teacher? There is no one around!”
This is in part a networking problem (I decided).
The secret of networking is that some people are very highly connected (the people who "know everybody at the company" or "know everyone in ...") and to be a passable networker you just need to know who those people are.
So my first approach was to go to a priest and say "I need to talk to someone about [Serious Spiritual Topic]" and the reaction is like "I don't have time for that and/or don't feel qualified. Let me try to pass you to someone like a hot potato" (except translated into polite English). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. My second approach was to go to a young priest and ask "what priests around here do spiritual direction AND might have time" because priests have spiritual directors, right? (at least young serious looking ones do), so they know the market, maybe?
After a few times I refined it further:
My third approach was to go to an experienced pastor who was already definitely too busy (AND who I wouldn't want to meet with anyway, not because he's not a great guy but I knew it was not his wheelhouse) and tell him "I am looking for a priest who can do spiritual direction, and I know YOU don't have time, so WHO should I talk to who would know priests who do this" and he immediately put me in touch with the Very Highly Connected Woman and SHE met with me and came up with *several* possibilities.
Then there is still the matter of fit (you meet with someone 2-3 times (or maybe only 1 time and say thank you for your time), to decide if this might work out).
I tried soliciting spiritual direction from a priest once and he graciously accepted several meetings but frankly neither he nor I knew what I was doing. I had cultivated a friendship with a parish priest who was my age and who was involved with young adults and eventually would sneak spiritual direction from him wherever I could, in the form of questions. Spiritual direction is time consuming and difficult. My parish here has only one priest and I tried for months to get time with him and when I did he did not really offer me any counsel. So I think your experience is probably common, as regrettable as that is. Basic mentorship (layman to layman) might get us 80% of the way there and then maybe the final 20% can be that one hour once a year meeting with a parish priest if we catch him in ordinary time after he's had a full nights sleep.
This is a hard problem and the Church is, collectively, working on it. I think for the time being we layfolk will have to do the best we can and understand that priests are in relatively short supply (I think we're still doing better than many countries, but even so!)
I definitely think there's some good work to be done in this space. I don't know if that work is to be done by ME but I'm hoping I can help somehow or other. If not official spiritual direction--mentorship by experienced layfolk could still be valuable!
The true director of souls is the Holy Spirit and He will never let a person down who is trying (there will be guidance through some other ordinary means: books, conversations with friends, homilies), which we see in the lives of some saints who never had a spiritual director or rarely even had a confessor who actually understood them well.
I agree basic mentorship (layman to layman) can handle a fair amount of basic things, especially getting off the ground and establishing a regular prayer life and advising one another on useful books.
For some of the remainder, traditionally, it's sufficient to have a "regular confessor" (when I was in a parish with only one priest this was trivial since it was always him, but for me now in a merged parish that rotates priests through its scheduled confession times so you never know who is in the box this week until you are there looking at the sign on the door, it would be basically impossible), and traditionally this guy's job is to say "how about don't do that" when asked "can I undertake this extraordinary penitential practice (because I am young and fervent AND ALSO PROUD)", or it is his job to deal with scrupulosity (where people don't "feel" forgiven and it's like OCD and they want to re-confess sins and/or confess non-sins), or conversely with the desire to "confess these sins to some *other* guy so that my *regular* guy doesn't think I am a bad person", which are both dealt-with simply by not shopping around and by *trusting* (either trusting him to have properly absolved you and to know what is a sin and what isn't, or else, trusting him to not have any particular opinion of you after absolving you.)
This is deep wisdom. If I could put a list together of guidelines for catholics to simplify their faith, it would include some of these items. Go to the closest parish (yes, even that one with the liturgy you dislike), trust that God will give you the confession experience you need; trust that God will give you the Mass experience you need, let go of all these preferences and just TRUST, FAM!
Life is much easier when we let go of the steering wheel even just a little bit. Thank you for this, Bridget--you've really hit the nail on the head here.
Thanks, Scoot. Have been an adult catechist for twenty years now and well recognise ‘green zeal’. I tell the groups each year that part of their journey will involve accepting suffering as part of Christ’s body, but I also don’t want to quench that conversion flame which serves the Church so well. Their passion converts into His at the appointed time but it can be a tough transition.
I'm a cradle Catholic, but the Green Zeal you describe reminds me of my "high points" at any the retreats I've been to both in high school and college. I'd always feel super close with Jesus when I'm away from the daily grind, spending time with friends worshipping. But when I'd go back to the daily routine - poof! The feeling passed.
Sometimes I'd wonder if I had a real encounter, or if it was just emotions (which, especially as a teen, I was pretty suspect to).
But then a speaker (or maybe a small group leader, I don't remember) connected this experience with the Transfiguration - Peter, James, and John were super excited to see Moses and Elijah with Jesus and they wanted to stay there forever! But then God gives tells them to listen to Christ. Or in a totally-legit-exegesis-interpretation: "that's nice and all, Peter, but you got work to do!"
Long story long, I agree with you that the Green Zeal is not a "problem," but a spiritual gift of consolation that needs to be balanced in order for the person to live out its fruits.
The great Sicilian philosopher, St. Thomas Aquinas, wrote in Summa Contra Gentiles that “The slenderest knowledge that may be obtained of the highest things is more desirable than the most certain knowledge obtained of lesser things”. As a cradle catholic I find reading the "Green" metanoia of converts like yourself be very reaffirming of my own faith and that all minds, whether simple or complex, are Capax Gratiae.
Thanks for reading, and very well said! All minds are capable of grace--once we acknowledge that suddenly it becomes difficult to be critical of our fellow man for suffering from the same human frailty as ourselves.
Well said (and not a terribly surprising topic for the PTD; I was waiting for this!). Like that quote from Fulton Sheen, unless we’re actively putting our knowledge into practice in our own lives, we’re not doing something right. As a theology student, this is something I need to remember more.
This is a topic that has popped up again and again, and ive really struggled with how to talk about it so ive appreciated the discussions we’ve had. The concept of mentorship and direction has helped unlock whatever was left—if we have direction its no longer our discretion, but our obedience that makes the difference. Direction short cuts so many problems!
Instantly intrigued by the books tied with twine.
Unfortunately it's only a stock photo! I tried to see the titles too but I couldn't figure it out.
> If you read this and, with exasperation, think “How can I get a spiritual director/mentor/teacher? There is no one around!”
This is in part a networking problem (I decided).
The secret of networking is that some people are very highly connected (the people who "know everybody at the company" or "know everyone in ...") and to be a passable networker you just need to know who those people are.
So my first approach was to go to a priest and say "I need to talk to someone about [Serious Spiritual Topic]" and the reaction is like "I don't have time for that and/or don't feel qualified. Let me try to pass you to someone like a hot potato" (except translated into polite English). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. My second approach was to go to a young priest and ask "what priests around here do spiritual direction AND might have time" because priests have spiritual directors, right? (at least young serious looking ones do), so they know the market, maybe?
After a few times I refined it further:
My third approach was to go to an experienced pastor who was already definitely too busy (AND who I wouldn't want to meet with anyway, not because he's not a great guy but I knew it was not his wheelhouse) and tell him "I am looking for a priest who can do spiritual direction, and I know YOU don't have time, so WHO should I talk to who would know priests who do this" and he immediately put me in touch with the Very Highly Connected Woman and SHE met with me and came up with *several* possibilities.
Then there is still the matter of fit (you meet with someone 2-3 times (or maybe only 1 time and say thank you for your time), to decide if this might work out).
I tried soliciting spiritual direction from a priest once and he graciously accepted several meetings but frankly neither he nor I knew what I was doing. I had cultivated a friendship with a parish priest who was my age and who was involved with young adults and eventually would sneak spiritual direction from him wherever I could, in the form of questions. Spiritual direction is time consuming and difficult. My parish here has only one priest and I tried for months to get time with him and when I did he did not really offer me any counsel. So I think your experience is probably common, as regrettable as that is. Basic mentorship (layman to layman) might get us 80% of the way there and then maybe the final 20% can be that one hour once a year meeting with a parish priest if we catch him in ordinary time after he's had a full nights sleep.
This is a hard problem and the Church is, collectively, working on it. I think for the time being we layfolk will have to do the best we can and understand that priests are in relatively short supply (I think we're still doing better than many countries, but even so!)
I definitely think there's some good work to be done in this space. I don't know if that work is to be done by ME but I'm hoping I can help somehow or other. If not official spiritual direction--mentorship by experienced layfolk could still be valuable!
The true director of souls is the Holy Spirit and He will never let a person down who is trying (there will be guidance through some other ordinary means: books, conversations with friends, homilies), which we see in the lives of some saints who never had a spiritual director or rarely even had a confessor who actually understood them well.
I agree basic mentorship (layman to layman) can handle a fair amount of basic things, especially getting off the ground and establishing a regular prayer life and advising one another on useful books.
For some of the remainder, traditionally, it's sufficient to have a "regular confessor" (when I was in a parish with only one priest this was trivial since it was always him, but for me now in a merged parish that rotates priests through its scheduled confession times so you never know who is in the box this week until you are there looking at the sign on the door, it would be basically impossible), and traditionally this guy's job is to say "how about don't do that" when asked "can I undertake this extraordinary penitential practice (because I am young and fervent AND ALSO PROUD)", or it is his job to deal with scrupulosity (where people don't "feel" forgiven and it's like OCD and they want to re-confess sins and/or confess non-sins), or conversely with the desire to "confess these sins to some *other* guy so that my *regular* guy doesn't think I am a bad person", which are both dealt-with simply by not shopping around and by *trusting* (either trusting him to have properly absolved you and to know what is a sin and what isn't, or else, trusting him to not have any particular opinion of you after absolving you.)
This is deep wisdom. If I could put a list together of guidelines for catholics to simplify their faith, it would include some of these items. Go to the closest parish (yes, even that one with the liturgy you dislike), trust that God will give you the confession experience you need; trust that God will give you the Mass experience you need, let go of all these preferences and just TRUST, FAM!
Life is much easier when we let go of the steering wheel even just a little bit. Thank you for this, Bridget--you've really hit the nail on the head here.
Thanks, Scoot. Have been an adult catechist for twenty years now and well recognise ‘green zeal’. I tell the groups each year that part of their journey will involve accepting suffering as part of Christ’s body, but I also don’t want to quench that conversion flame which serves the Church so well. Their passion converts into His at the appointed time but it can be a tough transition.
I'm a cradle Catholic, but the Green Zeal you describe reminds me of my "high points" at any the retreats I've been to both in high school and college. I'd always feel super close with Jesus when I'm away from the daily grind, spending time with friends worshipping. But when I'd go back to the daily routine - poof! The feeling passed.
Sometimes I'd wonder if I had a real encounter, or if it was just emotions (which, especially as a teen, I was pretty suspect to).
But then a speaker (or maybe a small group leader, I don't remember) connected this experience with the Transfiguration - Peter, James, and John were super excited to see Moses and Elijah with Jesus and they wanted to stay there forever! But then God gives tells them to listen to Christ. Or in a totally-legit-exegesis-interpretation: "that's nice and all, Peter, but you got work to do!"
Long story long, I agree with you that the Green Zeal is not a "problem," but a spiritual gift of consolation that needs to be balanced in order for the person to live out its fruits.
Btw, why is it green?
Thank you for reading! I think it's called green for "unripe" or like fresh/new growth. Unseasoned, like unseasoned wood.
It is very hard to remind yourself that praying is more effective than watching Catholic YouTube videos (or reading Catholicstack.)